gear

we have anywhere from 4 to 10 people come out... its a friendly atmosphere, and everyone is very knowledgable...so your definately gonna learn alot. we always keep teams even, no bad sportsmanship. we even tend to video tape our matches so we can watch them later, that way we can better ourselves. we play not far from galyans (the sporting good store) so if we run out of something we can take a 30 min break while you run there to get filled up or whatever. im not going to post the location, ill PM it to you if your interested. dont worry about your girl getting scared...shell have a blast.

and what should you bring?
the obvious: gun, hopper, mask, air etc...
not so obvious: a hat or skullcap type thing is a good idea because sometimes ticks get into your hair, the cap acts sorta like a tick condom. bring papertowels in a sealed baggie along with a water bottle so you can squirt your lense if you get paint on it. also bring a towel and a snack...we play a lot of games, so your probably gonna get hungry.

like i said, if your interested you are more then welcome to come play.

roadrcr82

gotta love tick condoms :-) sounds like fun we will definately try to make it out there ill give you guys a holla when we get everything ready. im thinkin about going to action town sometime in the near future but we'll see what happens

Xyxyll

The Imagine is a great entry-level marker. It's cheap, light-weight, reliable, and easy to maintain. If you decide to upgrade it, definitely start out with a new barrel (Barrel FAQ) or HPA air system (Crossfire or Centerflag).

This site should help you out with anything you want to know about Spyders: OtterSC Customs.

Xyxyll

Basically, cause a lot of what you just said was wrong.

JBub

Easy to say, harder to explain.

Give it a shot playboy.

roadrcr82

are there any indoor fields around here? any of them any good. also where can i buy good paint for cheap? is there a shop around here anywhere?

Xyxyll

First off, any Spyder can compete with high-end Angels. Get on the field, and you'll notice that all paintball markers shoot paint at 280-300fps towards their target. No marker shoots further or hits harder than any other. If you really want to argue speed, Spyders can cycle over 45 cycles per second! The low price tag is because Kingman (not Spyder) doesn't make money off of individual sales. Kingman makes money on low-priced entry markers. As for the machining remark, Kingman's bodies haven't change in tolerances since they changed the body style. If you're talking about the ESP electronic frames, I am very impressed with them. They serve as a great base for tuning and upgradability. There are several upgrade/modding options for the frame - triggers, uncapped boards, anti-chop eyes, grips, and switches.

Well, first lets explain why there are spikes. When liquid CO2 enters your marker, it sits in the air chamber behind the valve. When you fire the marker, that valve is opened and the CO2 rushes through it into the breech (and striker chamber, but that's not important). The liquid/gas mixture expands into all gas and propels the ball with a velocity spike. Liquid CO2 is more dense than gaseos CO2, so more CO2 is propelling the marker.

When a CO2 tank sits horizontally, liquid CO2 will always be released into the marker. Even the best expansion chambers cannot expand all liquid CO2 that has entered the gun. Properly installed anti-siphon tubes however are much more efficient at preventing liquid CO2 from entering the air chamber. As for the Kingman regulator, it is so restrictive that it would not allow any of the CO2 to expand into gas, so it just regulates a liquid/gas mixture to go into the marker. Since that liquid:gas ratio is not going to be consistant going through the regulator, you will have a wide variety of velocity readings.

In the end though, HPA is simply much better of an air source. It is always gaseous, easy to get, can cause no freeze damage to o-rings (such as o-rings inside regulators), and already has a preset or adjustable regulator on the tank.

JBub

We're not arguing speed. If you're trying to compare the accuracy and build of an Angel to Spyder then you need to stop playing in the woods, and try going to an actual field. If these "imagines" are anything like they used to make spyder's, then they placed the venturi bolt in the upper champer of the frame, which made it ultimately notorious for breaking half the paint that comes out of it. I'm not bashing the company, just these cheap electronic markers that cannot compete with the electro's from Angel, Bushmaster, Automag, etc. Sure, it can fire over 45 cycles per second, but the question is, how much paint is going torwards your target at that speed?

Probably half.
Again, whoopty fucking doo. They still don't fall anywhere close to an Angel. I don't care how much you do to an "Imagine", you're going to have to worry about getting the paint past the piece of shit venturi bolt in one piece.
Again, the Kingman regulator is a piece of shit. And define "Variety". You make it seem that your FPS readings are going to come up similar to 230, 280, 220, etc. I would give it +-10fps. I don't see any sense in wasting so much money to regulate a mere +-10fps. Most field limits are 300fps, and paint is most accurate around 270-280fps.

And if these guns are setup like they used to, then the air source enters an external regulator, then the expansion chamber in the foregrip, followed by the internal regulator. Velocity readings aren't going to be based on a shitty external reg alone.

Wow, we actually agree. HPA is a better air source, but if you can afford the tank for HPA, then you can most likely afford something better than a rackity entry level electro. And HPA is not "easy to get". You're going to find CO2 a hell of a lot more than High Pressure. If you know where to find it, then it's "easy" to get.

In the end, you just babbled about basic information with way too many words. I commend your efforts.

Xyxyll

Interesting that you say that, because Angel bolts are also located in the top chamber. That's because all bolts function is simply to push the ball into the barrel and deliver air to the backside of the ball. I've chopped just as many balls in my Angel as my Spyder, and nowadays, I can't chop in my Spyder, but I will still chop in my Angel, even with COPS on. Chopping is a problem with every marker on the market that uses a bolt. These problems are easily fixed whether mechanically (lighter mainspring or lower-pressure LPR or Anti-Chop bolt) or electronically (Anti-Chop Eyes).

The only other issue I can think of is trigger setup. You can mod the ESP trigger frames to accept as little as 25g activation microswitches or Hall Effect Sensors (activated by a magnet on the back of the trigger). These basically give you the "floating trigger" of higher-end guns. All the weight comes down to gravity and spring/magnet tension. And volume of paint going towards your target? As much as you can pull the trigger for... or even more if the debounce is cranked down.

That's pretty much right. At this point in the industry, the fastest you can reliably feed paintballs into a marker is approx 21-23 balls per second with the Odyssey Halo B loader. The limitation on most markers now is not speed of cycles, but speed of feeding. Once the feeding speed exceeds even higher, then gun limitations can be met. However, 35bps flying towards you and your bunker would not be the greatest site or feel.

Yes, the Kingman regulator does suck. It has a poor recharge rate and is very restrictive. Variety - Spikes in velocity caused by CO2 can spike as high as 10-20fps over the original setting. Sometimes that extra regulation (+/- 1-5fps) can be the difference between eliminating your opponent or getting shot by his stream.

Seeing as a Spyder has one of the most effective internal regulators/valve (it self-compensates variances in pressure behind it) in paintball, you really don't even need an inline regulator on a Spyder. There is a good use for an inline regulator on a Spyder though. The internal valve of the Spyder works best in a certain pressure range (all depends on the spring setup). If the inline regulator can keep the air in the air chamber to that range, you will have great consistancy. Any variance in pressure in the air chamber at that time is compensated by the valve. So for $50 + a $20 anti-siphon tube installed or just a $75 preset HPA tank, you can have a very consistant Spyder.

Yes, but liquid CO2 will still give you a variance. If liquid is still in the air chamber, the valve can't compensate for what the denser liquid will expand into when the shot is fired.

Of course velocity readings aren't going to be based on an inline reg alone. Velocity readings depend on your entire air system and paint.

Sure is a good air source, and it's not as expensive as it used to be. You can now get HPA systems for as low as $75 (these are good systems). You can also find HPA fills at nearly all fields, definitely all the fields around here. You may be able to afford a higher-end gun with the money saved for a HPA system for your Spyder, but then you'll still need to dish out the $75+ for a HPA system for the higher-end marker. I wouldn't dare put CO2 through my Angel or Emag.

And yours aswell! Nice car btw.

JBub

Again, you're comparing Angel bolts, to Spyder bolts. Apples and Oranges my friend.

The fact is, we know what we're talking about, and no one else does.

And your E-mag? Talk about a fucking boat anchor. I played with one a while back. Had #300 in production. I hated the weight issue, but loved the shot with a 16' boomstick. Sold it for an Angel LED, and I would never go back. Did they ever come out with a lighter body for it?
Thanks, want to buy it?