DickButt

Once again. Nothing to back up your claim so you try and be a smartass about it.

You cant honestly say that many modified srt owners dont, or didnt at one point in time have stage 1. And by many, i mean at least a third. Come on now, i havnt been away from the forums for that long. Also ive heard all the arguments about the timing, i wasnt arguing one way or another about that, but for a mildly modded srt, (wastegate, intake, exhaust,)stage 1 is not a bad idea. It kept me from throwing codes,(even though there is a free way to do that), and gave me a little more power.
And how can you argue that stage 3 is a waste of time? There are many srt owners out there who dont want the hassle of piecing together a 50 trim kit, fuel mods, and everything else and would just prefer the better driveability of a s3. And i recall back in the day reading a few threads on guys who claimed their paticular dealership warrantied s3 if it was installed at the dealership, and ive read threads where entire warranties were said to be voided (even though it was a violation of the magnuson moss act) for simply installing a mopar bov. So i guess it just depends on the dealer.

Ive owned an srt numbnuts.

DickButt

Stock is stage 0, did you mean install a stage 1? agpturbo.com has plenty of stuff for you.

Daft Punk

nowadays though the price of a DCR stage 3 cost the same as a gt35r kit from AGP. I guess its in what you want but honestly the Staged kits have gone up in price alot in the past 2 years since the decommision of the NSRT-4.

As a representative of the SRT community I recommend people to stay away from the Staged kits thats all. It serisouly isnt worth it.

Oh and an intake isnt gonna do shit for your car. the stock air box is perfect. unless you go big turbo then and only then get a aftermarket intake.

Twenty5psi

I agree! What stage was your srt4?

itsjstaneon

So let me start off by stating if you dont like the car and think its a piece of shit then dont buy it period. As for the guy who stated the car is the same as a 2nd gen i would love for you to tell me in great detail why. There are so many differences it would take days for me to list them all it just really shows you have no idea what your talking about. There are weak points on every car and i wont sit here and say the srt-4 is the be all god of the compact world cause its not hondas have been doing what srt-4s have just begun to do, but i will say i dont see very many stock 4 banger motors running 500whp for 100+ drag passes with no issues, i mean to each there own.

Now on to helping slow...

Slowmr2 the best thing you could do when looking for an srt is to take someone with you who knows the ins and outs of the car. I will tell you that a stage 3 installed correctly is almost impossible to have issues with, the ecu and kit was built to be fool proof thats the way dodge wanted it. With that being said if you drove a stage 3 which i dont think you did by the tial wastegate comment then either something is wrong with the car or they are just simply misleading you. The stage 3 has no external wastegate at all unless its been fabricated to be this way, the stage 3 wastegate works like the stock internal setup. I have a feeling the dealership mislead you and you just didn't have the knowledge to know better which is ok we all start somewhere. Ok so lets say you did drive a stage 3 which has been altered to have an external wastegate setup chances are this was done because the turbo is a big wheel or ported out stocker which again gets us back to the highly modified car comments. I also would not buy a already modded car simply because you dont know what has been done to the car before you recieved it. But it will be hard to find an srt thats in stock form they just dont happen and are a rarity, so your best option is again to take someone who knows what to look for and knows what the car is doing. Chances are since its an 05 srt and the ecu is much much more intiative then the previous years the issues your speaking of are ecu related and likly a simple fix. Just research information and learn about the product your trying to buy before you do so. Here is a site which can provide you days worth of reading on the srt should you want to further your knowledge.... www.srtforums.com ... I am also willing to help you in any way with questions or concerns you might have shit ill even ride out there and look at the car with you and show you things.


But if you take nothing from this look here.

BIG TURBO > Staged car

Daft Punk

by Totmacher (formally DCR tuner and 757 Tuner of SRT-4's)

This is the order I recommend as each stage complements the next.


1) T-Bar Hose Clamps ? These are pretty self explanatory, the stock worm gear hose clamps are just not strong enough to really crank down on to hold the hoses/pipes tight. PTPerformance sells them.

t-bolt clamp kit (HD t-bolt clamps 5 piece) $26.50 + $6.00 shipping



2) Check Valve ? Basically the stock PCV valve on the top passenger side of your valve cover is a check valve, BUT as I have shown a few people it doesn?t seal for shit. If you want to check, take the valve off (simple turn it counter clockwise with the hose detached) and blow through the smaller opening. It SHOULD seal, but as you?ll see it doesn?t do its job very well. What is happening is during normal cruising at vacuum, the manifold draws air through that black line connected to the manifold just to the center of the throttle body off the valve cover. This is for emissions so that all the oil vapors up there get burnt off through the engine. But while under boost you don?t want to pressurize your valve cover so the stock PCV valve is supposed to seal preventing boost from passing through it (and out the other side into the stock intake box creating a boost leak). This is solved by purchasing a simple check valve and placing it in the line between the intake manifold and your catch can. Another nice benefit it you no longer have to crank your catch can tight making it really hard to open and empty in that tight spot. The order should be Valve Cover ->Stock PCV Valve -> Catch Can -> Check Valve -> Intake manifold. Make sure the arrow on the check valve points towards the intake manifold. What about the nipple on the drivers side of the valve cover? Just run a catch can / breather filter off it if you have a aftermarket intake pipe for piece of mind, but now since you have prevented pressure from being felt in the valve cover under boost, not a lot of oil gas will get blown into your aftermarket intake. I personally ran a breather for the heck of it. Again PTPerformance sells them.

Check valve (billet aluminum) $37.45 + $4.00 for shipping



3) Venturi Line ? This was a hot topic awhile ago, but I?ve taken my side and am sticking to it. I?ve done my research and I feel confident in my decision. The stock line IS a boost leak. And it?s not exactly a ?small? boost leak. Is it there for a reason YES. Can the car safely operate without it there? Yes. Will an emissions inspector flip out if he somehow noticed what you did? Yes. Will it probably void the emissions aspect of you warranty if the dealership found it? Yeah? But does anyone honestly care about that stuff? Naw. Is this going to affect a care running stock boost levels? Probably just a little, but more so for those pushing the efficiency range of the turbo they are using. Under normal driving, the car pulls vapors in your gas tank into the car through the small black line connected to your intake manifold (there is a check valve installed [small green three way thing back in there] and it does work perfectly). But under pressure (boost) the car has no way to draw off those fumes. So what the guys at dodge did is use a venture, basically it?s the same principle as an eductor for your Navy guys, or for you civilian type its like the adaptor you put on your garden hose to spray weed killer on your lawn. Under boost the car sends pressure through a black line that rounds off right after the Blue line T, this pressure then goes through a venturi which is located in the T fitting right after the blue line. The pressure continues straight through the T and to the elbow on the stock air box. This is the boost leak? Now why is it there? I?m not going to try to explain it, so if you don?t understand, just do searches for Venturi, air ejector, eductor, etc on Google. But basically it draws a vacuum through the other line in the T which comes from the check valve (small green T) and then from the gas tank. Thus allowing the car to maintain a vacuum on the gas tank both in and out of boost. Now by removing it you have made it so that the car will only pull a vacuum on the gas tank under normal driving, but not under boost. I?m not going to explain how to safely remove this line as you can really fuck shit up if it?s not done. Just come by my house and I?ll do it in 30 minutes. Cost - free



4) Boost Leak check ? This is so important I can?t stress it enough. For anyone that has ever witnessed a boost leak check on a virgin car and seen first hand all the leaks I guarantee you any stock car has you should understand. It?s very simple and cheep. You just need a tank or a compressor (I recommend at least a 5 gallon tank so that the compressor doesn?t kick on), a leak checker (PM DasMopar) and a really quiet place. Having 3 people REALLY helps out. Things to know though. If you have the Mopar Blue plate you MUST put the key in the start position but not start the car. This aligns the solenoid to rout air to the BOV to shut. Also place a rubber cap on the Drivers side PCV nipple of the valve cover (the one that routes a hose to the stock air box). Also if you have not removed the Venturi line (see #3), plug the other hose that would normally run to the plastic ELBOW of the stock air box. Now jack the car up so you can slide under it, remove the black splash guard on the passenger side so you can get to the hot side pipe. Also remove the intake. Have one person on top of the car and the other below then just run up the pressure to20-25psi (30 for big turbo/stage 3) have the one watching the boost gauge control the pressure and call out the boost. Now when you hear a leak, stop the check and fix it. Then start over. Take the leaks 1 at a time. Common leaks; hot side pipe to intercooler, intercooler to cold side pipe, throttle body throttle (non fix able), nipples off break booster that go to boost gauge and intake manifold, brake booster hose connection to intake manifold (on the bottom of manifold), charge pipe off turbo, CATCH CAN?S that do not have a check valve installed before them see #2), venturi line (see #3), Valve covers (will leak a bit do to valves leaking by, but will leak A LOT if no check valve installed see #2) and that?s about it. One thing I know is leaking on someone?s car, but we have really never checked for would probably be the connection under the dash where the boost gauge connects. Fix the leaks and move on. What does a boost leak do? It?s more then just not letting your car run the boost you want, more importantly is it puts your turbo out of its efficiency range. If you are running 18psi at the manifold with lets say a 3psi boost leak, which means the turbo is really working its ass off to make 21psi. Result; hotter turbo, hotter charge air temp for lower boost level, lower boost, turbo out of efficiency range and the list goes on. Bottom line? Do a good boost leak, it?s vital? UPDATE INFO: I recently had a huge boost leak in my intake manifold gasket/Injectors. This can possibly be found by letting the car idle and feeling/listening through a tube to your ear around the Intake Manifold gasket and Injectors, also spraying small amounts of water and listening for a slush sound or the enjine stumbling.



5) Spark Plugs ? At the least, re-gap your plugs to .036, for the big turbo guys, or those pushing 20psi on the stock turbo, go down to .028 - .030. I?m not a huge fan of the champions; I use the NGK Iridium LZTR6AIX-13. I get them in bulk from Darrell Cox Racing. I usually buy 8-12 plugs at a time. Unless you can talk Darrell into gapping them for you, buy 1 extra for every 4 because unless your REAL good, your probably going to break one. They are 20$ which is better then sparkplugs.com. PM Darrell Cox.



6) Motor Mounts ? This is for people that go to the track ONLY! Skip this if you never plan to go to the track, in fact close out internet explorer, go have a friend drive your SRT to the dealership (you are no longer allowed to drive it) and sell it to someone who will Drag Race it. I have now used both filled mounts and Boomba motor mounts (Thanks John) and I can say that personally the Boomba mounts are awesome, but the filled mounts did the job just as well. If you have the money for the boomba mounts, go for it. But for me I can?t justify the price for the same performance as a 26$ can of Flexaine. I have the McMaster book here in front of me and its Part Number 8644K18 ? $26.92. That?s enough for 3 mounts (1 pound). You can get 10 pounds for $171.61 (8644K19) for 10 people and it would cost 18$ per person. We (The HRC) have a few extra sets of stock mounts lying around so that you can have zero downtime while the flexaine dries.


7) Balance Shaft Removal - It's actually pretty darn simple to do. You have to take of the Charge pipe, forward trany bracket thing and the lower bracket. Other then that it's not hard at all. If you put in a new clutch you may as well do this at the same time as all the stuff has already been removed to get to it. You will need a small set screw to thread into the oil feed line. You have to tap it in as the hole is not pre tapped. I would recommend a windage tray/pick up tube at the same time since they are decently cheep. Darrell Cox Racing offers them. The DCR Oil Pickup Tube is larger and same diameter through the turn, so there is no pressure drop across the tube. It also does not have the big filter at the bottom so it will not cause the pump to cavitate. I honestly would have to say i felt the results of the balance shaft removal after a few quick pulls on the way home. You can definitely feel the car spin up a bit quicker and the turbo spools quicker. As for the vibration/Noise, I have a side Exit Exhaust and filled mounts currently installed and I would have to say I didn't notice a change at all (obviously). I'm sure it's there, but like the Darrel Cox instructions say "If your building a race car a little extra vibration shouldn't bother you." Definitely a must do in my opinion.
Darrell Cox Windage Tray - 200
Darrell Cox Pick Up Tube - 50
Darrell Cox Crank Scraper And Baffle ? 75

Again, all you need to do is cut the chain which is free, but I would say do it right and remove the balance shaft assembly.



8) Exhaust ? With the way Norfolk has been lately you pretty much are guaranteed the hassle of getting a ticket with a stock exhaust or any exhaust on the market now a days. So the best bet locally is pretty much aftermarket 3? O2 housing and 3? down pipe with an electronic cutout. Or if you?re brave or just don?t give a shit pretty much any full turbo back 3? exhaust will do. I personally prefer Maxx Fabs Side Exit, It?s not for everyone, but I love its look paired with a rolled rear bumper. It?s loud, I won?t lie about that, but anyone that has ridden around in my car will probably say unless your WOT, it?s really not that loud and it doesn?t drone nearly as much as most exhausts out there. Resonators aren?t really going to rob any power from the car, but a cat will. I just prefer the ?natural? sound from our car as opposed to the resonated sound. Scott at MaxxFabs work is bar none. I highly recommend his products. He now has a WIDE range of products that can be upgraded to meat your upgrade path or piggy bank. Start with his 3? O2 housing and a Downpipe with no cat and go from there. The Other Option is an E-Cutout which Needswings offers. E-Cutouts are fuckin loud and will give you a headache from hell after just a few runs with it open, but man can they scare the shit out of ricerboy. Scott sells turbo back packages starting at 435ish and Needs wings E-Cutouts start at about 250.

Check Out http://www.maxxfab.com and http://www.needswings.com for exhausts

You can just gut your cat, simple way to get a nice sound and flames, but bottom line is you may be freeing up some back pressure by removing the cat, but at the same time your probably adding in a decent amount of turbulence due to the open void left in its place. Bug Doug and maybe he?ll start welding in pipes in place of the gutted cat on our DP?s for some $$$.



9) 180 degree Thermostat / Fan Mod ? Simple and self explanatory. I feel these two should be done together. They both are extremely cheep and easy to do. The fan mod is also cheep and easy. Just be careful when you grab the wire for the fan, because there is a wire that looks A LOT like it, one is blue with pink strip and the other is blue with red stripe I believe. Also grab the wire from the CORRECT harness. Again I?ll update this with the right info. So why is this important? For drag Racing it?s a must, for Dyno tuning, it?s very nice to have because it cuts down on the wait time, which your paying for, 25$ can save you 100$. So what about a 160 T-Stat? I really don?t know. I would assume a 160 would work, but that just seams really low to me. I have seen cars many times put down lower numbers on the dyno at under 160 degrees. I haven?t tried it or messed with it so I can?t say much. Yet again PTPerformance has made this easy for you. I run water with royal purple. Not exactly a street setup, but it works fine If you need more info on water vs coolant, ask me.

180 degree t/stat with cooling system additive (Royal Purple) $24.50 + $8.00 for shipping



10) Fuel Pump Rewire ? its extremely cheep and easy to Do. Steve has graciously supplied us with enough 8 gauge wire to do the entire SRT community. I think Jegs or Summit offers a fuel pump rewire kit, which honestly amazes me. All you have to do is go buy a fog light relay from an auto shop and come spend an hour in my garage installing it. It?s extremely easy. I have data logs to prove that it does increase fuel pressure to redline. Combine this with a Darrell Cox Racing Modified Walbro 255 and you will have plenty of fuel and you WILL hold full pressure to redline, again I have proven this with data logs. DCR sells the modified Walbro 255 for 160$. The fog lamp relay will run you about 5$. PM Darrell Cox



11) SAFC II ? Next on the list of upgrades would be a SAFC II. Map clamps are nice, but if your going to do it, you may as well do it right. SAFC?s can be purchased for 200-250 new on ebay and sometimes a lot lower used. Add in the tach driver for 40-60 and that?s all you need. Why do I say a SAFC II now? Well at this point a SAFC II is going to help you out in a few ways. Especially for those 05 guys. Obviously you can pull out fuel to lean the car out, but in the process, properly tuning it will allow you to run more boost. And a noticeable amount at that. With my stock car with everything done up to this point (#1-12) plus a LFMIC My Zeitrinex wideband and my electronic boost gauge both show about 15.8-16.2 PSI on 4th gear pulls. My Tech Gauge MAP gauge only shows 13.6, which is the max boost the stock stage 0 ECU will allow 13.6 in 4th, 12.9 in 3rd). All with 32-35 degrees timing advance at redline (a few runs at the track showed .5-1.0 degrees timing pulled due to knock). That small 2-3psi may not seam like a lot, but when you consider the ECU is pretty much allowing that extra PSI without detuning the car (actually adding some timing to boot!) anywhere else it?s actually a substantial increase. There is a really good sticky in the how to section and also in the engine management section concerning the install of a SAFC II. Points of note for the install are DEFENETLY solder and shrink wrap every connection. Also pay close attention to where you tap wires in as some need to be taped on the same wire as another wire, but the placement is important. Also it?s real important to tap the SAFCs TPS wire into the MAP voltage wire, NOT into the Cars TPS wire. This is tuning by load. This is the proper way to do it for a boosted car. Read up on the Sticky as for why. I deleted the tuning info I had because if you don?t do it right, you can fuck up your car. So why a SAFC now? You now have room to tune, so go ahead and make use of that free power, Your going to need one to progress any further, so get it now and get used to using it and start making power with it now! Obviously a SAFC Neo is a good/better choice.



12) Wideband ? This is a real tough one. Most people just can?t justify the cost, and I can agree. Widebands are fuckin expensive as shit, no getting around it. But on the flip side, Dyno time isn?t exactly cheep either. There are widebands out there in the 250 range and now and then pop up on buy/sell for less. I use the Zeitrinex. Definitely the most $$$ one and again not for everyone, but I like the additional features it offers (EGT, Boost, RPM, Extra 0-5 volt signal, A/F, Lambda.) The logging you can do with it is outstanding. Downside? The box looks like shit and just can?t be mounted anywhere and look good. If your going to go big turbo, then you really really need to get a wideband. You can also now use a PDA as your display/logger with a ZT2. Greg got his setup for like 135$ and that includes the PDA, wires and software. A lot more convienent then keeping a laptop in your car lol! Needswings sells the ZT2. I would defenetly recommend getting one from him. In the end you WILL save money on Dyno time.



13) LFMIC / Crash Bar- This is a tough decision. CCA/Quick whips obviously work. And for the price you can?t beat them. They both do an excellent job cooling, but the pressure drop across them is the question on everyone?s mind. The CCA has been proven to have a substantial pressure drop; I?m not sure if anyone has proven what the drop is across the quick whips yet though. The problem at this point is there is so many LFMIC?s on the market and so little hard data/comparisons to really draw any solid conclusions. This is honestly part of the reason I went with the Exhaust Depot?s Super Beast. I figured I can and will get the data people need out of it and post it for people to use to decide. Aside from that the main reason I went with it is because my homework showed me the best form of Intercooler is a Bar and plate core, with Cast End tanks. Then on top of that a smooth design should lead to VERY minimal pressure drop and excellent cooling. The forums will tell you the best ?tested? intercooler is an AGP Full Race LFMIC. But the cost? yeah? Bling factor, the AGP takes the cake in my book though? My crude decision as of now is AGP or Exhaust Depot Super beast. Preferably the Super Beast. I really don?t have a lot to back it up, so take that with a grain of salt.Crashbars are nice for the piece of mind, but mostly because it adds that stiffnes back to the chassis. UPDATE! Well after running my Super Beast and My Tech Gauges for awhile now I can say the Super beast does SUPERIOR cooling. After seeing the rise in Intake Temps across Flip Flops AGP Full Race, I?d have to go with the Super Beast.



14)Slicks ? Just do it. Slicks are going to get you what you want. Rims for Slicks, Just do your homework? A lot is factored in to fitment, but mostly it?s matching the offset and width with the type of coilovers you have. Definitely not a requirement for non Drag Racers, but definitely requirements for those that drag race a lot. if you don't want to buy new rims, PM Darrell Cox, he has slicks that will fit on stock SRT rims/suspension.


(Eventually I?ll add)
15) Traction Bars
16) ECU
17) Shift Light
18) Lower Control Arm Bushings
20) 55mm Throttle Body And Spacer
21) Ported Intake Manifold
22) Short Throw Shifter

DickButt

True, gains are minimal for an intake on a stock turbo srt, but once again, there are many srt owners who have them. I personally just loved the sound on mine and i got my intake used for $100. If i get another one (i still hope to), ill be getting an intake again.

itsjstaneon

Slowmr2 ill pm you contact info call me and i assure you there wont be a question you ask i cant answer or know who to contact to find the answer.

DickButt

I still am confused as to why you say the s3 is a waste of time. Like you said, its in what you want and comparing a stage 3 to a gt35r is like apples to oranges.

itsjstaneon

what do you mean unless you go big turbo...... how about thats a must step up miguel make it happen!