Audio Help
#11
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Re: Audio Help
whoa whoa lets slow down here for a hot second.
Just becuase you're altima is advertised as a 6 speaker + subwoofer vehicle does not always mean that you need 7 channels.
According to Metra, you have 6.5" and 1" tweeters in the front, and 5.25" speakers in the rear, with a 6x9 woofer.
Normally, if you replace the front speakers and tweeter, you should replace those with a set of component speakers. These component speakers come with a 6.5" speaker, a tweeter of some size, and a passive crossover. The crossover will allow you to split one audio connection from an amplifier to both the midrange speaker and the tweeter. This crossover will filter the audio signals going to both, allowing more midrange signals to the 6.5" speaker, and the high range signals to the tweeter. If you use this configuration, then you will only need to use a 5 channel amp in the vehicle. This is becuase both the from speakers and tweeter will only need two channels, the rear speakers will need two channels, and the subwoofer will only need one channel. I've attached a diagram for you to better understand the setup.
btw, MECP Advanced Installer too
Enjoy!
Just becuase you're altima is advertised as a 6 speaker + subwoofer vehicle does not always mean that you need 7 channels.
According to Metra, you have 6.5" and 1" tweeters in the front, and 5.25" speakers in the rear, with a 6x9 woofer.
Normally, if you replace the front speakers and tweeter, you should replace those with a set of component speakers. These component speakers come with a 6.5" speaker, a tweeter of some size, and a passive crossover. The crossover will allow you to split one audio connection from an amplifier to both the midrange speaker and the tweeter. This crossover will filter the audio signals going to both, allowing more midrange signals to the 6.5" speaker, and the high range signals to the tweeter. If you use this configuration, then you will only need to use a 5 channel amp in the vehicle. This is becuase both the from speakers and tweeter will only need two channels, the rear speakers will need two channels, and the subwoofer will only need one channel. I've attached a diagram for you to better understand the setup.
btw, MECP Advanced Installer too
Enjoy!
Ok fabrik thanks alot.
#12
Re: Audio Help
your mecp certified and you told him to try a cap.
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Re: Audio Help
So you have speakers in the front door, speakers in the rear doors, and speakers in the rear deck? That would be 8 speakers (assuming OEM mids and tweets in the front) plus the sub. That doesn't add up with what Metra has listed, unless the speakers in the rear deck are the stock sub? Or are there grills in the back deck but no speakers from the factory..?
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here?
#14
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Re: Audio Help
i would assess that the speakers in the rear deck are the 6x9 woofers. If thats the case, I would leave those woofers in place, but disconnect the speaker terminal to them. Replace the rear door speakers, the 5.25", there is a huge assortment of high quality 5.25" speakers.
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Re: Audio Help
So you have speakers in the front door, speakers in the rear doors, and speakers in the rear deck? That would be 8 speakers (assuming OEM mids and tweets in the front) plus the sub. That doesn't add up with what Metra has listed, unless the speakers in the rear deck are the stock sub? Or are there grills in the back deck but no speakers from the factory..?
Am I missing something here?
Am I missing something here?
Last edited by Gr0dy; 04-03-2009 at 11:07 AM.
#16
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Re: Audio Help
i would leave all the speakers in the doors(front and back ) and would remove the rear deck subs if not used to give more air flow in and out to the trunk to your subs . it will sound better and cleaner.
plus i dont like any bass going through my mids and highs and it will be easier to adj the gain and freq this way for your front and rear door speakers.
just my to cent.
plus if you want to add components to the rear doors down the road it will be easier to and a cleaner look as well. a little harder to add components to a rear deck led and not as a clean look as well . plus putting a component set ina 6x9 hole isnt exactly fun then you got to find a place for your crossovers to hide.
dont see no need for a cap. just get a bigger or better alternator(including wires too ) and like fab said add a extra ground wire in the engine bay .
cliff notes-
-components in the front doors and rear doors
-remove rear deck subs (6x9)and leave empty but put grills back on
-put subs in trunk.
- one 4 channels mid and high amp
-one two channel sub amp (unless your going with more subs then might need more channels but depends on you set up and speakers .)
plus i dont like any bass going through my mids and highs and it will be easier to adj the gain and freq this way for your front and rear door speakers.
just my to cent.
plus if you want to add components to the rear doors down the road it will be easier to and a cleaner look as well. a little harder to add components to a rear deck led and not as a clean look as well . plus putting a component set ina 6x9 hole isnt exactly fun then you got to find a place for your crossovers to hide.
dont see no need for a cap. just get a bigger or better alternator(including wires too ) and like fab said add a extra ground wire in the engine bay .
cliff notes-
-components in the front doors and rear doors
-remove rear deck subs (6x9)and leave empty but put grills back on
-put subs in trunk.
- one 4 channels mid and high amp
-one two channel sub amp (unless your going with more subs then might need more channels but depends on you set up and speakers .)
Last edited by aacjohnc; 04-03-2009 at 12:07 PM.
#17
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Re: Audio Help
And you've drank the Kool-Aid but probably can't explain the reasons behind that debate.
I understand all of the engineering theory behind why they shouldn't work, but I've seen them have visible benefits and that's the point that is hard to argue with. I will agree that they won't do anything for the sound system or how well it performs, but they do sometimes help with headlight and dash dimming.
Do caps work anywhere near as well as what their marketing says? Absolutely not. No debate there.
A bigger alternator is definitely the better solution though, because nothing can help you if you are drawing more average current than what the electrical system can output. If you play bass heavy music, hip hop, etc., and you have headlight problems, a cap is not going to do anything for you.
So although I agree with what you're saying, I still recommend that people try them when trying to solve minor annoyance problems like quick headlight or dash dimming.
I understand all of the engineering theory behind why they shouldn't work, but I've seen them have visible benefits and that's the point that is hard to argue with. I will agree that they won't do anything for the sound system or how well it performs, but they do sometimes help with headlight and dash dimming.
Do caps work anywhere near as well as what their marketing says? Absolutely not. No debate there.
A bigger alternator is definitely the better solution though, because nothing can help you if you are drawing more average current than what the electrical system can output. If you play bass heavy music, hip hop, etc., and you have headlight problems, a cap is not going to do anything for you.
So although I agree with what you're saying, I still recommend that people try them when trying to solve minor annoyance problems like quick headlight or dash dimming.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 04-03-2009 at 12:07 PM.
#18
Re: Audio Help
And you've drank the Kool-Aid but probably can't explain the reasons behind that debate.
I understand all of the engineering theory behind why they shouldn't work, but I've seen them have visible benefits and that's the point that is hard to argue with. I will agree that they won't do anything for the sound system or how well it performs, but they do sometimes help with headlight and dash dimming.
Do caps work anywhere near as well as what their marketing says? Absolutely not. No debate there.
A bigger alternator is definitely the better solution though, because nothing can help you if you are drawing more average current than what the electrical system can output. If you play bass heavy music, hip hop, etc., and you have headlight problems, a cap is not going to do anything for you.
So although I agree with what you're saying, I still recommend that people try them when trying to solve minor annoyance problems like quick headlight or dash dimming.
I understand all of the engineering theory behind why they shouldn't work, but I've seen them have visible benefits and that's the point that is hard to argue with. I will agree that they won't do anything for the sound system or how well it performs, but they do sometimes help with headlight and dash dimming.
Do caps work anywhere near as well as what their marketing says? Absolutely not. No debate there.
A bigger alternator is definitely the better solution though, because nothing can help you if you are drawing more average current than what the electrical system can output. If you play bass heavy music, hip hop, etc., and you have headlight problems, a cap is not going to do anything for you.
So although I agree with what you're saying, I still recommend that people try them when trying to solve minor annoyance problems like quick headlight or dash dimming.
#19
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Re: Audio Help
I'm not MECP cert, but that doesn't matter because I'm not an installer. My background is different, though not important.
When you discharge a battery it becomes a useless waste of money too. I'm assuming people buy batteries because of their purpose while they are charged, not while they are discharged. Same with caps.
Caps don't become a load anymore than anything else. They only charge up to the system voltage and only discharge to that voltage too, so they only become a load when the system voltage increases after something like an amp stops drawing big amounts of current. If a cap is discharged to a certain voltage level, it doesn't draw ANY current sitting at that voltage level (except for a tiny amount of parasitic leakage current for those who want to split hairs).
If you're doing something with a lot of bass, you don't have a lot of current transients. If you don't have a lot of current transients, you don't need a cap, and therefore a cap is a waste of money. This is, again, because a cap only charges or discharges during changes in voltage. If the voltage stays low during a long bass note or something like that, the cap just sits there doing nothing.. When the voltage comes back up, the cap charges back up. The amp is what drew all the current, which lowered the voltage, and now the amp has played it's note and is done drawing big amounts of current so it doesn't matter how much current the cap needs to charge back up.
Which brings me to my next point:
Caps do nothing except smooth the edges of fast current transients. They aren't a battery, don't work like a battery and don't do the same job as a battery. That is the reason that the power supply inside an amp uses a bank of capacitors instead of a battery. Caps entire function in life is to store charge, and release that charge when needed during a fast voltage change. This is why they can't do anything to stabilize voltage when amps are drawing current, but they can do something to help fast bursts of headlight dimming and dash dimming. Basically they aren't going to do anything to help your amps perform better, so in terms of audio performance they are a waste of money.
Whether the stored charge is a large enough quantity to affect something, or can be released fast enough to affect something, is the crux of the whole debate about whether caps work or not. There are some situations which make them appear to serve a valid purpose, even though the engineering analysis says they shouldn't.
So I'm going back to my previous post; caps don't (can't) do all of the lofty things that marketing says they can, but they do seem to work in some situations.
I'm not saying the OP should or should not get a cap, or use a cap. Hopefully no problems come up, and he won't need a bigger alternator or a cap or anything like that. A better battery is always a good idea, and not just in terms of an audio system.
Whether you need one or not isn't clear yet, because nothing is installed yet.
Whether it will work or not in your system is not known, because nothing is installed yet.
Making blanket statements about whether a cap does or doesn't work is crap, because nothing is installed yet.
Buy a cap because you're having a problem that it could help, not because it's on everyone's shopping list of things that they must have when putting together an audio system.
When you discharge a battery it becomes a useless waste of money too. I'm assuming people buy batteries because of their purpose while they are charged, not while they are discharged. Same with caps.
Caps don't become a load anymore than anything else. They only charge up to the system voltage and only discharge to that voltage too, so they only become a load when the system voltage increases after something like an amp stops drawing big amounts of current. If a cap is discharged to a certain voltage level, it doesn't draw ANY current sitting at that voltage level (except for a tiny amount of parasitic leakage current for those who want to split hairs).
If you're doing something with a lot of bass, you don't have a lot of current transients. If you don't have a lot of current transients, you don't need a cap, and therefore a cap is a waste of money. This is, again, because a cap only charges or discharges during changes in voltage. If the voltage stays low during a long bass note or something like that, the cap just sits there doing nothing.. When the voltage comes back up, the cap charges back up. The amp is what drew all the current, which lowered the voltage, and now the amp has played it's note and is done drawing big amounts of current so it doesn't matter how much current the cap needs to charge back up.
Which brings me to my next point:
Caps do nothing except smooth the edges of fast current transients. They aren't a battery, don't work like a battery and don't do the same job as a battery. That is the reason that the power supply inside an amp uses a bank of capacitors instead of a battery. Caps entire function in life is to store charge, and release that charge when needed during a fast voltage change. This is why they can't do anything to stabilize voltage when amps are drawing current, but they can do something to help fast bursts of headlight dimming and dash dimming. Basically they aren't going to do anything to help your amps perform better, so in terms of audio performance they are a waste of money.
Whether the stored charge is a large enough quantity to affect something, or can be released fast enough to affect something, is the crux of the whole debate about whether caps work or not. There are some situations which make them appear to serve a valid purpose, even though the engineering analysis says they shouldn't.
So I'm going back to my previous post; caps don't (can't) do all of the lofty things that marketing says they can, but they do seem to work in some situations.
I'm not saying the OP should or should not get a cap, or use a cap. Hopefully no problems come up, and he won't need a bigger alternator or a cap or anything like that. A better battery is always a good idea, and not just in terms of an audio system.
Whether you need one or not isn't clear yet, because nothing is installed yet.
Whether it will work or not in your system is not known, because nothing is installed yet.
Making blanket statements about whether a cap does or doesn't work is crap, because nothing is installed yet.
Buy a cap because you're having a problem that it could help, not because it's on everyone's shopping list of things that they must have when putting together an audio system.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 04-03-2009 at 04:35 PM.
#20
Re: Audio Help
I'm not MECP cert, but that doesn't matter because I'm not an installer. My background is different, though not important.
When you discharge a battery it becomes a useless waste of money too. I'm assuming people buy batteries because of their purpose while they are charged, not while they are discharged. Same with caps.
Caps don't become a load anymore than anything else. They only charge up to the system voltage and only discharge to that voltage too, so they only become a load when the system voltage increases after something like an amp stops drawing big amounts of current. If a cap is discharged to a certain voltage level, it doesn't draw ANY current sitting at that voltage level (except for a tiny amount of parasitic leakage current for those who want to split hairs).
If you're doing something with a lot of bass, you don't have a lot of current transients. If you don't have a lot of current transients, you don't need a cap, and therefore a cap is a waste of money. This is, again, because a cap only charges or discharges during changes in voltage. If the voltage stays low during a long bass note or something like that, the cap just sits there doing nothing.. When the voltage comes back up, the cap charges back up. The amp is what drew all the current, which lowered the voltage, and now the amp has played it's note and is done drawing big amounts of current so it doesn't matter how much current the cap needs to charge back up.
Which brings me to my next point:
Caps do nothing except smooth the edges of fast current transients. They aren't a battery, don't work like a battery and don't do the same job as a battery. That is the reason that the power supply inside an amp uses a bank of capacitors instead of a battery. Caps entire function in life is to store charge, and release that charge when needed during a fast voltage change. This is why they can't do anything to stabilize voltage when amps are drawing current, but they can do something to help fast bursts of headlight dimming and dash dimming. Basically they aren't going to do anything to help your amps perform better, so in terms of audio performance they are a waste of money.
Whether the stored charge is a large enough quantity to affect something, or can be released fast enough to affect something, is the crux of the whole debate about whether caps work or not. There are some situations which make them appear to serve a valid purpose, even though the engineering analysis says they shouldn't.
So I'm going back to my previous post; caps don't (can't) do all of the lofty things that marketing says they can, but they do seem to work in some situations.
I'm not saying the OP should or should not get a cap, or use a cap. Hopefully no problems come up, and he won't need a bigger alternator or a cap or anything like that. A better battery is always a good idea, and not just in terms of an audio system.
Whether you need one or not isn't clear yet, because nothing is installed yet.
Whether it will work or not in your system is not known, because nothing is installed yet.
Making blanket statements about whether a cap does or doesn't work is crap, because nothing is installed yet.
Buy a cap because you're having a problem that it could help, not because it's on everyone's shopping list of things that they must have when putting together an audio system.
When you discharge a battery it becomes a useless waste of money too. I'm assuming people buy batteries because of their purpose while they are charged, not while they are discharged. Same with caps.
Caps don't become a load anymore than anything else. They only charge up to the system voltage and only discharge to that voltage too, so they only become a load when the system voltage increases after something like an amp stops drawing big amounts of current. If a cap is discharged to a certain voltage level, it doesn't draw ANY current sitting at that voltage level (except for a tiny amount of parasitic leakage current for those who want to split hairs).
If you're doing something with a lot of bass, you don't have a lot of current transients. If you don't have a lot of current transients, you don't need a cap, and therefore a cap is a waste of money. This is, again, because a cap only charges or discharges during changes in voltage. If the voltage stays low during a long bass note or something like that, the cap just sits there doing nothing.. When the voltage comes back up, the cap charges back up. The amp is what drew all the current, which lowered the voltage, and now the amp has played it's note and is done drawing big amounts of current so it doesn't matter how much current the cap needs to charge back up.
Which brings me to my next point:
Caps do nothing except smooth the edges of fast current transients. They aren't a battery, don't work like a battery and don't do the same job as a battery. That is the reason that the power supply inside an amp uses a bank of capacitors instead of a battery. Caps entire function in life is to store charge, and release that charge when needed during a fast voltage change. This is why they can't do anything to stabilize voltage when amps are drawing current, but they can do something to help fast bursts of headlight dimming and dash dimming. Basically they aren't going to do anything to help your amps perform better, so in terms of audio performance they are a waste of money.
Whether the stored charge is a large enough quantity to affect something, or can be released fast enough to affect something, is the crux of the whole debate about whether caps work or not. There are some situations which make them appear to serve a valid purpose, even though the engineering analysis says they shouldn't.
So I'm going back to my previous post; caps don't (can't) do all of the lofty things that marketing says they can, but they do seem to work in some situations.
I'm not saying the OP should or should not get a cap, or use a cap. Hopefully no problems come up, and he won't need a bigger alternator or a cap or anything like that. A better battery is always a good idea, and not just in terms of an audio system.
Whether you need one or not isn't clear yet, because nothing is installed yet.
Whether it will work or not in your system is not known, because nothing is installed yet.
Making blanket statements about whether a cap does or doesn't work is crap, because nothing is installed yet.
Buy a cap because you're having a problem that it could help, not because it's on everyone's shopping list of things that they must have when putting together an audio system.