Block guard Causing Over heating?
12-29-2009, 03:10 PM
#21
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
I don't understand how you can state you understand you reduce coolant flow w/o affecting the cooling of the motor. Coolant only has so much heat capacity. Once that is reached, flow will make all the difference.
Also, you're essentially pressing the block gaurd in, distorting the cylinders. While yes, you're supposed to hone to re-achieve concentricity, you're still altering the stress/preload and allowable thermal expansion of the cylinder walls. Lastly, you're increasing your heat mass.
So yeah, saying adding block guards doesn't effect anything with the cooling, again, it does.
Saying one block gaurd doesn't effect the cooling cability of a motor, then install 5 or 6 block gaurds, would you say then that it doesn't make a difference?
The cooling loss tradeoff for assurance on most street driven motors is negligable, but its still a trade off. Most street driven motors on high boost only see WOT for a brief period of time. As such, they don't generate enough heat that the new setup can overcome.
But again, I retracted my original theory on the block guard being the culprit.
Also, you're essentially pressing the block gaurd in, distorting the cylinders. While yes, you're supposed to hone to re-achieve concentricity, you're still altering the stress/preload and allowable thermal expansion of the cylinder walls. Lastly, you're increasing your heat mass.
So yeah, saying adding block guards doesn't effect anything with the cooling, again, it does.
Saying one block gaurd doesn't effect the cooling cability of a motor, then install 5 or 6 block gaurds, would you say then that it doesn't make a difference?
The cooling loss tradeoff for assurance on most street driven motors is negligable, but its still a trade off. Most street driven motors on high boost only see WOT for a brief period of time. As such, they don't generate enough heat that the new setup can overcome.
But again, I retracted my original theory on the block guard being the culprit.
i see a bunch of big words but no actually real word stuff just theories, i can argue with u all day about this but I KNOW I HAVE DONE IT, block guards install correctly dont affect cooling at all, how bout i do a test i have a motor with a block guard in the at the shop ill do a test, same volume and pressure into the motor and ill monitor what comes out the thermostat, i bet i will see the exact same flow and volume
what does explaining how to install a block guard have to do with the flow of coolant???
*edit*
i reread your post again your saying installing a block guard some how increase cylinder temps? that doesnt make sense at all
Last edited by RameyBuilt; 12-29-2009 at 03:18 PM.
12-29-2009, 03:13 PM
#22
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
i see a bunch of big words but no actually real word stuff just theories, i can argue with u all day about this but I KNOW I HAVE DONE IT, block guards install correctly dont affect cooling at all, how bout i do a test i have a motor with a block guard in the at the shop ill do a test, same volume and pressure into the motor and ill monitor what comes out the thermostat, i bet i will see the exact same flow and volume
what does explaining how to install a block guard have to do with the flow of coolant???
give it up man im not having a pissing contest with u about this dumb ass topic
what does explaining how to install a block guard have to do with the flow of coolant???
give it up man im not having a pissing contest with u about this dumb ass topic
12-29-2009, 03:38 PM
#23
٩███۶ wilrep 4 a leg
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
i see a bunch of big words but no actually real word stuff just theories, i can argue with u all day about this but I KNOW I HAVE DONE IT, block guards install correctly dont affect cooling at all, how bout i do a test i have a motor with a block guard in the at the shop ill do a test, same volume and pressure into the motor and ill monitor what comes out the thermostat, i bet i will see the exact same flow and volume
what does explaining how to install a block guard have to do with the flow of coolant???
*edit*
i reread your post again your saying installing a block guard some how increase cylinder temps? that doesnt make sense at all
what does explaining how to install a block guard have to do with the flow of coolant???
*edit*
i reread your post again your saying installing a block guard some how increase cylinder temps? that doesnt make sense at all
12-29-2009, 03:39 PM
#24
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
First of all, sleeves actually cool better than block guards. Sleeves are one piece, so heat from the sleeve goes right into the coolant. With a block guard, the cylinder has to conduct into the block guard and then into the coolant, and there is a thermal impedance mismatch between the cylinder and the block guard. This obviously only matters in the area where the block guard is, and that area alone won't make an engine overheat unless there is some other problem really helping things along.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
As long as you have coolant flow through a block guard, and above/below the block guard, there shouldn't be any problems. The area that the block guard seats around is a pretty high heat area, but you're only blocking an area that is the thickness of the block guard itself. and there is still a lot of cooling over the rest of the cylinder area below that point.
Sleeves have the exact same problem, but they don't have the thermal impedance mismatch so they're slightly better (and they're radiused so the coolant flow is a little better optimized around the sleeve.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
As long as you have coolant flow through a block guard, and above/below the block guard, there shouldn't be any problems. The area that the block guard seats around is a pretty high heat area, but you're only blocking an area that is the thickness of the block guard itself. and there is still a lot of cooling over the rest of the cylinder area below that point.
Sleeves have the exact same problem, but they don't have the thermal impedance mismatch so they're slightly better (and they're radiused so the coolant flow is a little better optimized around the sleeve.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 12-29-2009 at 03:51 PM.
12-29-2009, 03:42 PM
#25
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
First of all, sleeves actually cool better than block guards. Sleeves are one piece, so heat from the sleeve goes right into the coolant. With a block guard, the cylinder has to conduct into the block guard and then into the coolant, and there is a thermal impedance mismatch between the cylinder and the block guard. This obviously only matters in the area where the block guard is, and that area alone won't make an engine overheat unless there is some other problem really helping things along.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
12-29-2009, 03:47 PM
#26
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
Both of you guys, hit the nail on the head. 
I've never had a problem with block guards, I used them in almost all of my sohc's. However, I had gregorys install them as well as check the deck of the block.
Cory, I hate to say it, I know you are over gambling with your money to try and find a solution but ARP's do stretch. I haven't heard one person yet complain about Golden Eagle. I would get a Golden Eagle Headgasket and Stud kit. HOWEVER, before putting that on. Pull your motor out and take it to a machine shop (the bottom end and the head) and have both checked for warpage and if they need to be resurfaced.
I've never had a problem with block guards, I used them in almost all of my sohc's. However, I had gregorys install them as well as check the deck of the block.
Cory, I hate to say it, I know you are over gambling with your money to try and find a solution but ARP's do stretch. I haven't heard one person yet complain about Golden Eagle. I would get a Golden Eagle Headgasket and Stud kit. HOWEVER, before putting that on. Pull your motor out and take it to a machine shop (the bottom end and the head) and have both checked for warpage and if they need to be resurfaced.
12-29-2009, 04:02 PM
#27
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
Super-Honda.com
Ek9.org
d-series.org
Or just listen to Pete.
12-29-2009, 05:24 PM
#28
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
First of all, sleeves actually cool better than block guards. Sleeves are one piece, so heat from the sleeve goes right into the coolant. With a block guard, the cylinder has to conduct into the block guard and then into the coolant, and there is a thermal impedance mismatch between the cylinder and the block guard. This obviously only matters in the area where the block guard is, and that area alone won't make an engine overheat unless there is some other problem really helping things along.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
As long as you have coolant flow through a block guard, and above/below the block guard, there shouldn't be any problems. The area that the block guard seats around is a pretty high heat area, but you're only blocking an area that is the thickness of the block guard itself. and there is still a lot of cooling over the rest of the cylinder area below that point.
Sleeves have the exact same problem, but they don't have the thermal impedance mismatch so they're slightly better (and they're radiused so the coolant flow is a little better optimized around the sleeve.
You aren't really restricting coolant flow to anywhere but the head, and that's really hard to do unless the block guard design is pretty shitty because the coolant passages between the head and block aren't very large.
So yes, block guards can cause slightly worse cooling, but they shouldn't ever be the cause of cooling problems by themselves.
Oh, and every time this type of subject gets brought up, I have to say it: Install is very crucial. Who knows what problems you'll have if the block guard is installed improperly or the bores aren't post-machined to bring them back to some semblance of true. Head gasket sealing problems, ring sealing problems, lots of friction, take your pick.
As long as you have coolant flow through a block guard, and above/below the block guard, there shouldn't be any problems. The area that the block guard seats around is a pretty high heat area, but you're only blocking an area that is the thickness of the block guard itself. and there is still a lot of cooling over the rest of the cylinder area below that point.
Sleeves have the exact same problem, but they don't have the thermal impedance mismatch so they're slightly better (and they're radiused so the coolant flow is a little better optimized around the sleeve.
12-29-2009, 05:30 PM
#29
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
That's a good point. So the aluminum outer sleeve is in contact with the block guard, but there will still be slight thermal impedance mismatch because the metals aren't really in intimate contact. So it would be better than steel to aluminum, yes. You're still slightly limiting the surface area of the sleeve (where the blockguard is) in contact with the cooling water though. But like I said, that shouldn't have a significant effect on overall cooling.
12-29-2009, 05:33 PM
#30
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Re: Block guard Causing Over heating?
there is a new product out that may be able to help you pm me for details( cant post because i do not have vendor status)