Electronics, how do they work?
08-19-2010, 10:41 PM
#51
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
Fabrik8 says he's tired of arguing and is sorry he disagreed with someone. Fabrik8 should probably refrain from giving advice based on proper electrical design and years of wiring experience. Fabrik8 will respectfully leave this pointless discussion now and go to bed.
Last edited by Fabrik8; 08-19-2010 at 10:46 PM.
08-19-2010, 10:56 PM
#52
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
I bet you have a Servo driven precision can opener, because thats the "PROPER" way to open cans.
IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER, it will work fine, and your way is not the only way.
No need to tell me to not give advice because you dont agree with me.
08-20-2010, 01:57 AM
#53
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
- using a quality insulated 4 to 8AWG fused d-block, or
- drilling holes in a piece of copper to make a non-insulated backyard bus bar and using more suitable 12AWG wire
is that I'd go with the heavier gauge off the shelf solution because it was a more "finished" product. I also said that if I found a similar product offered in smaller gauge in-outs, I'd go with that. Selective reading much?
Also, thanks Chris, for finding that smaller gauge solution: http://www.delcity.net/store/6!Way-A...l/p_793543.a_1
BTW I have 2 large fans to run that on the same switch and are run constant on. This aint no honda I got.
Guess what buddy, I ran a tiny wire going to a switch inside my car you know what happen? The wire got hot, and ended up melting. Plus the car would always overheat do to LACK OF CURRENT to the motors. So I did need it.
Guess what buddy, I ran a tiny wire going to a switch inside my car you know what happen? The wire got hot, and ended up melting. Plus the car would always overheat do to LACK OF CURRENT to the motors. So I did need it.
- Costly if you forget hit the switch
- High current start-ups are wearing the contacts of your switch, and it (and by proxy, your cooling system) will fail long before a PWM controller.
- Fans not doing anything but wasting operational life before warm-up / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
- Manually turning the fan on at idle or when the temps begin to climb during low-speed creeping doesn't work because temperature gauges are not precise. By the time it has moved from it's normal (middle) position, the car is already too hot. It is entirely possible to have a defective temperature gauge, and the stock unit is only a relative indication of the true temperature of the car.
- Even if you did free up a minuscule amount of engine horsepower by removing the slight inertia of the stock fan clutch (if so equipped), you are now burning it up (potentially even losing power) as the alternator puts more strain on the engine to produce the current necessary to run the fan.
- Fans become a restriction to the pressure differential across the radiator's core at high speed / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
- Dead battery from stressed alternator
You might want to look into these products. I'm sure (being the electrical whiz that you are) you'll find them to be useful for your "setup".
http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30140
http://www.dccontrol.com/fk85p.htm
08-20-2010, 06:23 AM
#54
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08-20-2010, 07:14 AM
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
and I said twice that it was overkill for 45A, but my rationale when given a choice between:
- using a quality insulated 4 to 8AWG fused d-block, or
- drilling holes in a piece of copper to make a non-insulated backyard bus bar and using more suitable 12AWG wire
is that I'd go with the heavier gauge off the shelf solution because it was a more "finished" product. I also said that if I found a similar product offered in smaller gauge in-outs, I'd go with that. Selective reading much?
Also, thanks Chris, for finding that smaller gauge solution: http://www.delcity.net/store/6!Way-A...l/p_793543.a_1
- It's a pain to hit that switch every time you start/stop the car not realy theres plenty of people I know with cars that have it set up like that
Costly if you forget hit the switch (not realy because I wont forget)
- High current start-ups are wearing the contacts of your switch, and it (and by proxy, your cooling system) will fail long before a PWM controller.
(who cares replace the damn switch when that happens.)
- Fans not doing anything but wasting operational life before warm-up / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
(well dont turn them on yet that simple.)
- Manually turning the fan on at idle or when the temps begin to climb during low-speed creeping doesn't work because temperature gauges are not precise. By the time it has moved from it's normal (middle) position, the car is already too hot. It is entirely possible to have a defective temperature gauge, and the stock unit is only a relative indication of the true temperature of the car.
Have 2 aftermarket gauges Mech Autometer Temp guage, and Elec guage through my ECM. This is not my first rodeo with electic fan and the activation at the proper time, who say it doesnt work? So explain how my temp went down when the fan came on?
- Even if you did free up a minuscule amount of engine horsepower by removing the slight inertia of the stock fan clutch (if so equipped), you are now burning it up (potentially even losing power) as the alternator puts more strain on the engine to produce the current necessary to run the fan.
Didnt care about extra hp it made. Noise and space it took up were my reason for deletion. So much strain for something that its designed to do.......
- Fans become a restriction to the pressure differential across the radiator's core at high speed / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
Awesome kept my car cool.
SO what is needed load on the electrical system? Not much else going on.............
- Dead battery from stressed alternator
Because I have a 20 amp honda alternator.
You might want to look into these products. I'm sure (being the electrical whiz that you are) you'll find them to be useful for your "setup".
http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30140
http://www.dccontrol.com/fk85p.htm
Thanks for the advice, but I choose to ignore it. Due to the fact that you are trying to flame me, make me look stupid. Make it seem like I know nothing and you know everything. Your ways the only way.
With that do what you want. Its your car, and these guys are the electrical gods.
- using a quality insulated 4 to 8AWG fused d-block, or
- drilling holes in a piece of copper to make a non-insulated backyard bus bar and using more suitable 12AWG wire
is that I'd go with the heavier gauge off the shelf solution because it was a more "finished" product. I also said that if I found a similar product offered in smaller gauge in-outs, I'd go with that. Selective reading much?
Also, thanks Chris, for finding that smaller gauge solution: http://www.delcity.net/store/6!Way-A...l/p_793543.a_1
- It's a pain to hit that switch every time you start/stop the car not realy theres plenty of people I know with cars that have it set up like that
Costly if you forget hit the switch (not realy because I wont forget)
- High current start-ups are wearing the contacts of your switch, and it (and by proxy, your cooling system) will fail long before a PWM controller.
(who cares replace the damn switch when that happens.)
- Fans not doing anything but wasting operational life before warm-up / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
(well dont turn them on yet that simple.)
- Manually turning the fan on at idle or when the temps begin to climb during low-speed creeping doesn't work because temperature gauges are not precise. By the time it has moved from it's normal (middle) position, the car is already too hot. It is entirely possible to have a defective temperature gauge, and the stock unit is only a relative indication of the true temperature of the car.
Have 2 aftermarket gauges Mech Autometer Temp guage, and Elec guage through my ECM. This is not my first rodeo with electic fan and the activation at the proper time, who say it doesnt work? So explain how my temp went down when the fan came on?
- Even if you did free up a minuscule amount of engine horsepower by removing the slight inertia of the stock fan clutch (if so equipped), you are now burning it up (potentially even losing power) as the alternator puts more strain on the engine to produce the current necessary to run the fan.
Didnt care about extra hp it made. Noise and space it took up were my reason for deletion. So much strain for something that its designed to do.......
- Fans become a restriction to the pressure differential across the radiator's core at high speed / unneeded load on electrical system during that time
Awesome kept my car cool.
SO what is needed load on the electrical system? Not much else going on.............
- Dead battery from stressed alternator
Because I have a 20 amp honda alternator.
You might want to look into these products. I'm sure (being the electrical whiz that you are) you'll find them to be useful for your "setup".
http://www.painlessperformance.com/w...rchField=30140
http://www.dccontrol.com/fk85p.htm
Thanks for the advice, but I choose to ignore it. Due to the fact that you are trying to flame me, make me look stupid. Make it seem like I know nothing and you know everything. Your ways the only way.
With that do what you want. Its your car, and these guys are the electrical gods.
08-20-2010, 09:12 AM
#56
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
How about all of ya'll are wrong. The point is not to have two compressors. Use one compressor, sent it to a reserve tank, then install an air solenoid.
More reserve, louder horns, less strain on the electrical system, and no zebras stealing cheeseburgers.
But, I will add one thing:
This post:
Is one of the most retarded ones I have seen in a bit regarding electrical. True, it will work. But goddamn, a temp actuated controller is 14 bucks, or, even cheaper, a temp switch to ground the relay is 3 dollars at Advance. What kind of fucking moron rides around with an electric fan on a toggle switch? I see it day in and day out, more than I want to.
More reserve, louder horns, less strain on the electrical system, and no zebras stealing cheeseburgers.
But, I will add one thing:
This post:
Nope why the hell do I have to run a relay?
Its connected directly to the battery, I also have each fan running 8ga ea, then going to a switch. Theres also a fuse inline for it to.
Tiny wire was 10ga wire that shity radioshack sold that had more insulation than wire. It just didnt work. That's tiny wire to me.
Relays are low current switches for high current devices, Its not required to run one, as long as the switch is rated for the current........... correct.
I did have a relay, but couldnt find connectors for 8ga wire, to connect it. I also have an auto reset circut breaker.
Thanks for trying to flame me.
Carry on.
Its connected directly to the battery, I also have each fan running 8ga ea, then going to a switch. Theres also a fuse inline for it to.
Tiny wire was 10ga wire that shity radioshack sold that had more insulation than wire. It just didnt work. That's tiny wire to me.
Relays are low current switches for high current devices, Its not required to run one, as long as the switch is rated for the current........... correct.
I did have a relay, but couldnt find connectors for 8ga wire, to connect it. I also have an auto reset circut breaker.
Thanks for trying to flame me.
Carry on.
Is one of the most retarded ones I have seen in a bit regarding electrical. True, it will work. But goddamn, a temp actuated controller is 14 bucks, or, even cheaper, a temp switch to ground the relay is 3 dollars at Advance. What kind of fucking moron rides around with an electric fan on a toggle switch? I see it day in and day out, more than I want to.
08-20-2010, 09:26 AM
#57
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
How about this isn't a truck and I don't care for an air tank or a giant mess of hosing?
08-20-2010, 09:34 AM
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
I am merely throwing another idea out there.
What do I know though, right?
08-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
This post:
Is one of the most retarded ones I have seen in a bit regarding electrical. True, it will work. But goddamn, a temp actuated controller is 14 bucks, or, even cheaper, a temp switch to ground the relay is 3 dollars at Advance. What kind of fucking moron rides around with an electric fan on a toggle switch? I see it day in and day out, more than I want to.
Is one of the most retarded ones I have seen in a bit regarding electrical. True, it will work. But goddamn, a temp actuated controller is 14 bucks, or, even cheaper, a temp switch to ground the relay is 3 dollars at Advance. What kind of fucking moron rides around with an electric fan on a toggle switch? I see it day in and day out, more than I want to.
So why change it????????
Fuck it just run a coat hanger to your compressors and it will be fine. Also use twizzlers as air lines.
08-21-2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: Electronics, how do they work?
Its your car, do whatever you want.
If it works, it works. The rest of us will point and laugh at laziness, lack of planning, and general lack of attention to detail.
There is never one set way to do something. Ever. With that being said, if there are multiple ways of going about something, some of them are going to be less effective, safe, or be more time or energy consuming.
Personally, I think large gauge wire and toggle switches give a backyard mechanic look. Customers that come through my shop want things to be professionally installed, look appealing (ie no bundles of wires, large switches hacked into their dash, etc) and function like they should. Which is why we generally will do the more accepted practice in a situation.
Take what those of us here with some experience say as you may, but its like comparing a rattle can spray bomb job to a first class finish, yes the car got painted but look at the difference in technique and materials.
When installing air horns, I use a tank/compressor combo that is pretty small, but has enough volume for a 30 second blast from most small horns. Add triples or a large diaphragm unit, we usually have a better tank setup or compressor. Train horns generally have at least two tanks with some 1/2" crossovers at the minimum.
Granted I have a freaking Haldex compressor on my shoptruck that goes to a 40 gal. tank under the bed for storage, and it will sound a good set of locomotive horns like there is no tomorrow. Works great for airing up tires on a service call too.