98sr20ve

Or you could argue the flip side that they are trying to be fair to the RWD cars and offer diversity. Previous event was biased toward your car and the next was the opposite. I have had zero issues with the courses at any of the events I have attended. I view each course as a new challenge and don’t really give much thought to which car will do better. I think it varies enough to not be of much issue in the end. At the last event I heard it said that it was really tight and a handlers course again. I really think it varies.

lightningd

For the term sweeper, I don't know what the real definition is, but I call a sweeper somewhat long/lengthy turn--basically any turn where a RWD can power slide through it with no problem.

The previous event was a replica of the national course. There were a lot of turns that are RWD friendly, and FWD friendly. The latest course (Dec.), was basically for a RWD car in this manor--Go, power slide through this 180, a slalom, power slide through this 180, set up for the next turn, powerslide through that one, haul ass down the straight away, slow down, powerslide through the last corner.

solo2cvc

How about both?

turbochad

I've mentioned SEVERAL times on SEVERAL different threads here that if you come out on Saturday to help setup we run the course! If you think that's an unfair advantage, I'm sorry. But the course HAS to be run forwards by several people to make sure it flows, etc. There's nothing worse then a shitty autocross course.

As for the winter 2 course being specifically setup for a RWD, that's bull shit. What Zigler was refering to was him and bridgette driving it in their GMC truck. I was also out there doing it in my Tacoma. Is that an unfair advantage? I highly doubt it. My tacoma handles a lot differently then my Talon does. Do I learn the course better? Maybe a little, but a good walk through or two can accomplish the same thing..

Final note. Not allowing people that helped setup be PAXed or compete for points is total bullshit. You'd be punishing people for taking time out to help setup a course for everyone to run.

98sr20ve

You are not reading the entirety of what I have said. I figured that someone ran the course on a limited/restricted basis. I did not know that anyone who shows up can run the course in the same direction as it was being run the next day. Other clubs do not allow this to occur. If only one person had run the course and tried it out I would never have complained or posted one word. My other complaint was that this was not openly discussed. I even asked one person (while I was walking the course several months ago) I heard say “I slid around this corner yesterday” and When I questioned him about it he then said they were running it backwards. Several events latter I find out others are running it forwards. What would you think??? To say this was common knowledge is naive. No one I talked too knew this was occurring. It was never announced in drivers meetings. The SCCA manual clearly states that what this club is doing is outside of the SCCA rules. The club has the right to not follow the SCCA rules if they chose. My issue was that it was not common knowledge the entirety of what was being done.

This was only mentioned because of the amount of time that some people got to practice the course.

Let me be real clear. I do not have any issue with the way the TSCC is running its events. They can choose to do what they like. My issue was that I did not know what was being done and that it was not common knowledge what was being done. Now that this has been discussed openly, I attribute this misunderstanding to a lack of communication NOT to some desire to deceive other competitors. Now that it is out in the open I frankly don’t care. I will say that I don’t view the TSCC events as being a true measure of your skills against others. Those who run the course in advance have a distinct advantage against those who did not. In the end you can really only compare your time fairly against the same group you fall into, those that did and those that did not get to pre run the course.

98sr20ve

I still think its a little sad that no one from the club can seem to understand what it is like to be in the shoes of a relatively novice competitor. For months you study the sport, You watch people faster then yourself, you read the SCCA manual, you start noticing who is a good consistent driver, then you find out they get to practice the course in advance. It’s a little frustrating.

jmciver

Even though I see your point from a purely fair point of view, I wouldn't worry about what the top drivers are doing, and here is why. I, like you, am a relatively novice competitor who needs as much seat time as possible to get better. The national level drivers are so far ahead of us now that what they may do before a local event really doesn't matter since they would beat us anyway.

Case and point, although I have noticed that my raw times are creeping up on some of the top drivers in the area (which I admit does bring a big smile to my face ) I still know I have a ways to go and that any slight advantage they may have (i.e. help setting up the course) is far more outweighed by their experience. The people I compare myself to are my peers, who are also relatively novice competitors.

98sr20ve

Finally someone else see's my point (other then a sentra driver). Thanks. I have no grand illusions of beating them either.

trip

I DO AND I WILL!!!!!!!

lightningd

basically, whatever.
you took two points and merged them into one. RWD and the "truck sideways through gates" is one idea. "unfair advantage" and "pre-racing" is another idea. TSCC is not a organization that cares about the feelings of every racer out there. it's like going into mcdonalds, and you can't even get an employee to look at you and say "can i help you" simontaneously, making you feel like another pion that's not important. And finally, mentioning on here (some how, i don't remember them anyway) is not mentioning it to every racer out there.

thank you

IMO you can't measure exerience, but you can measure practice. you never know, you could be right up there w/ the pros. what if you were like .4 behind the national drivers, w/out the practice, you never know, so how will you ever?