Adventures into the unknown...
08-22-2009, 05:13 PM
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Adventures into the unknown...
Actually I lied, Ive been inside a D series Transmission for my del Sol before so I knew what I should expect if everything is working correctly...
In this case everything was NOT working correctly as within the past two days the trans went from being a little noisey under deceleration in gear ( throttle on was fine nothing to be suspitice of) to a clattery jumble of metal. I limped it around to get me to work and back got to my parents house where it finally decided to die. was in reverse with the clutch in when the wheels just locked up. Put it back in 1st and parked it until today. Pulled it into the garage with some slight difficulty and started work.
I dropped the old trans from the car and cracked it open... was gonna remove the snap ring that held the case on the clutch housing. This is what I found...
So upon seeing this I figured that the internals were probably fucked enough to pull the case off with out doing anything for the snap ring.
Yep, pulled the case right off.
Lets see what we have here...
Yep that used to be two bearings on the counter shaft. all thats left now is just the inner races for them. :crook: Thinking some sort of lubrication problem caused this. I only used Honda MT Fluid in it so either the bearings wore over time or it just didnt get enough oil to it and caused it to overheat and grenade. No wonder it wouldnt stay in second gear for the past week. :|
HEY!!! thats not supposed to be there. :P torn up ball bearing that landed on reverse.
Under all this crap is the magnet that should only catch the finer particles as gears wear...
An so that completes our journy inside my second transmission that I killed.
Needless to say Im replacing quite a few bearings in the one thats going back in. some feel and look alright but the ones that done are gone. New bearings will be here tuesday and hopefully will have it back together in about a week after I look through the tranny to make sure I wont have this problem again until I dump the D and get a B. :thumbup:
I'll update this as I repair the spare gearbox I had laying around the garage.
In this case everything was NOT working correctly as within the past two days the trans went from being a little noisey under deceleration in gear ( throttle on was fine nothing to be suspitice of) to a clattery jumble of metal. I limped it around to get me to work and back got to my parents house where it finally decided to die. was in reverse with the clutch in when the wheels just locked up. Put it back in 1st and parked it until today. Pulled it into the garage with some slight difficulty and started work.
I dropped the old trans from the car and cracked it open... was gonna remove the snap ring that held the case on the clutch housing. This is what I found...
So upon seeing this I figured that the internals were probably fucked enough to pull the case off with out doing anything for the snap ring.
Yep, pulled the case right off.
Lets see what we have here...
Yep that used to be two bearings on the counter shaft. all thats left now is just the inner races for them. :crook: Thinking some sort of lubrication problem caused this. I only used Honda MT Fluid in it so either the bearings wore over time or it just didnt get enough oil to it and caused it to overheat and grenade. No wonder it wouldnt stay in second gear for the past week. :|
HEY!!! thats not supposed to be there. :P torn up ball bearing that landed on reverse.
Under all this crap is the magnet that should only catch the finer particles as gears wear...
An so that completes our journy inside my second transmission that I killed.
Needless to say Im replacing quite a few bearings in the one thats going back in. some feel and look alright but the ones that done are gone. New bearings will be here tuesday and hopefully will have it back together in about a week after I look through the tranny to make sure I wont have this problem again until I dump the D and get a B. :thumbup:
I'll update this as I repair the spare gearbox I had laying around the garage.
08-23-2009, 08:21 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
Odd.Usually the input shaft bearing goes bad on D trannies.The old 3rd gen Civic/1st gen CRX trannies are bad about the countershaft carrier bearing going bad though(right Casey?),but they only have one bearing there,so they get overloaded.
Looks to me like it was low on fluid and they overheated.Just an FYI-it can be only a little low on fluid and sustained side loading(like "spirited" mountain driving)can pull away enough fluid to get various parts too hot.I like to completely drain the old fluid,and jack up only the passenger side of the car,then add the recommended amount of fluid(2ish quarts for D,I forget).it seems that keeping the car level and adding until it pours out the fill hole usually ends up in too little fluid being in there since it tends to pool around the fill hole area as you put it in there,so it's not really representative of the true fluid level.
If you need any parts let me know-I have about 15 D trannies laying around for parts.The main things I'd replace would be the input shaft bearing and seal and shift rod seal-those should be done any time a D tranny is opened up.Anything else I'd only replace if inspection reveals it needs it.Check all bearings for smoth operaton and signs of overheating,and check the usual 3rd gear synchro rings and collar for wear.
Chris
Looks to me like it was low on fluid and they overheated.Just an FYI-it can be only a little low on fluid and sustained side loading(like "spirited" mountain driving)can pull away enough fluid to get various parts too hot.I like to completely drain the old fluid,and jack up only the passenger side of the car,then add the recommended amount of fluid(2ish quarts for D,I forget).it seems that keeping the car level and adding until it pours out the fill hole usually ends up in too little fluid being in there since it tends to pool around the fill hole area as you put it in there,so it's not really representative of the true fluid level.
If you need any parts let me know-I have about 15 D trannies laying around for parts.The main things I'd replace would be the input shaft bearing and seal and shift rod seal-those should be done any time a D tranny is opened up.Anything else I'd only replace if inspection reveals it needs it.Check all bearings for smoth operaton and signs of overheating,and check the usual 3rd gear synchro rings and collar for wear.
Chris
Last edited by TNGChris; 08-23-2009 at 08:32 AM.
08-23-2009, 08:24 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
Odd.Usually the input shaft bearing goes bad on D trannies.The old 3rd gen Civic/1st gen CRX trannies are bad about the countershaft carrier bearing going bad though(right Casey?),but they only have one bearing there,so they get overloaded.
Looks to me like it was low on fluid and they overheated.Just an FYI-it can be only a little low on fluid and sustained side loading(like "spirited" mountain driving)can pull away enough fluid to get various parts too hot.I like to completely drain the old fluid,and jack up only the passenger side of the car,then add the recommended amount of fluid.it seems that keeping the car level and adding until it pours out the fill hole usually ends up in too little fluid being in there since it tends to pool around the fill hole as you put it in there,so it's not really representative of the true fluid level.
If you need any parts let me know-I have about 15 D trannies laying around for parts.The main things I'd replace would be the input shaft bearing and seal and shift rod seal-those should be done any time a D tranny is opened up.Anything else I'd only replace if inspection reveals it needs it.Check all bearings for smoth operaton and signs of overheating,and check the usual 3rd gear synchro rings and collar for wear.
Chris
Looks to me like it was low on fluid and they overheated.Just an FYI-it can be only a little low on fluid and sustained side loading(like "spirited" mountain driving)can pull away enough fluid to get various parts too hot.I like to completely drain the old fluid,and jack up only the passenger side of the car,then add the recommended amount of fluid.it seems that keeping the car level and adding until it pours out the fill hole usually ends up in too little fluid being in there since it tends to pool around the fill hole as you put it in there,so it's not really representative of the true fluid level.
If you need any parts let me know-I have about 15 D trannies laying around for parts.The main things I'd replace would be the input shaft bearing and seal and shift rod seal-those should be done any time a D tranny is opened up.Anything else I'd only replace if inspection reveals it needs it.Check all bearings for smoth operaton and signs of overheating,and check the usual 3rd gear synchro rings and collar for wear.
Chris
Yup. That's exactly what I was going to say.........
08-23-2009, 08:34 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
Originally Posted by VanillaThrilla
Carnage!
Chris, thanks for the info. Ill fill it as you recommend as when I drained the tranny the first time it didnt show as being low... but you are probably correct.
My spare trans that I initially pulled had the IS bearing going bad so I'm replacing that one, and the second bearing on the top of the counter shaft along with all the oil seals. Ended up being about $80 from Honda after dicking with them over the price. LOL I love majestic honda.
Everything else in it felt and looked fine. and oddly enough, even with all the metal the gears and syncros in the one above looked pretty decent for what it had been through.
08-23-2009, 09:06 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
Chris, thanks for the info. Ill fill it as you recommend as when I drained the tranny the first time it didnt show as being low... but you are probably correct.
. and oddly enough, even with all the metal the gears and syncros in the one above looked pretty decent for what it had been through.
. and oddly enough, even with all the metal the gears and syncros in the one above looked pretty decent for what it had been through.
It's kind of hit or miss.Depending on how long you drove it after the bearing failed,everything else may be fine.....Of course,all it takes is one piece getting caught between gears and it can ruin everything,bust a hole in the case,etc....I've got several completely trashed B trannies from this
Chris
08-23-2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
Haha most definately . When's that Coupe comin back out to play?
08-23-2009, 11:27 AM
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Re: Adventures into the unknown...
You can also fill the tranny per the manual's method with the car being level,but I'd fill it until it pours out,let it sit for a while,then try again(you'll most likely find it'll now accept more fluid),repeat.This should also make sure it gets full,it just wastes more fluid.
It's kind of hit or miss.Depending on how long you drove it after the bearing failed,everything else may be fine.....Of course,all it takes is one piece getting caught between gears and it can ruin everything,bust a hole in the case,etc....I've got several completely trashed B trannies from this
Chris
It's kind of hit or miss.Depending on how long you drove it after the bearing failed,everything else may be fine.....Of course,all it takes is one piece getting caught between gears and it can ruin everything,bust a hole in the case,etc....I've got several completely trashed B trannies from this
Chris
