Originally Posted by TNGChris

Without doing much research yet,I've got to agree.

BTW-We've gotten way,way away from the original argument of cars keeping up with bikes on a back road.It's safe to say that a good performing car with a decent driver can have fun with bikes on a twisty road.Now that that's out of the way.........

I say a car will out-brake a bike since the bike's high center of gravity will only allow it to brake to a certain threshold.A newer sportbike with DOT race tires and race pads can brake hard enough from higher speeds that it will want to endo.With the exception of lowering the Cg or lengthening the wheelbase,there's not a lot you can do to ovecome that.With a car you can always add more tire,more brake and/or downforce to achieve better braking,and I can't even imagine what the limit of that would be.I know a Formula 1 car can pull several G's under braking,and that's within the limits of their rules pertaining to wing area and with grooved tires.

I think the same applies to corner grip and putting down the power coming off the turn....

I'm really intrigued by this now

As an aside,just looking at VIR numbers,Matt Mladin on an AMA Superbike(the fastest class of bike to be at VIR)holds the North Course(2.25 miles)record at 1:23.The Full Course(3.27 miles)record is held by an old Benetton F1 car at 1:36!.....Again,this is apples to oranges...

Chris

Originally Posted by VanillaThrilla

I'm not sure if I'm the one that started the track discussion or not but IIRC this all started out with a discussion about running on a mountain in a car putting it up against sportbikes. I've gotten plenty off course with the debate myself, but now we're comparing AMA to F1? I can understand the comparison between AMA to GT1/GT2, but F1?

Originally Posted by 97svt/01saleen

A modern day F1 car is surpassed by none. Hands down. I guess I was talking more in general terms. I think I remeber R&T or Car&Driver did a test a long time ago with a Ninja ZX 11 (drool) and a ZR1 Corvette at Laguna Seca. Both in stock trim with professional drivers. I believe the ZX11 lapped the corvette. So my theroey is based on a vague recolection.
Also, I think in one of the supercar shootouts, they threw a Ninja in for a comparison and the braking from 100-0 was rediculous. I think only the Enzo was close to it.
Either way, it is apples and oranges and I love both the same.

Originally Posted by TNGChris

As an aside,just looking at VIR numbers,Matt Mladin on an AMA Superbike(the fastest class of bike to be at VIR)holds the North Course(2.25 miles)record at 1:23.

Originally Posted by VanillaThrilla

I'd bet you anything a stock sportbike is still going to put down a faster lap time. If you're going to argue that it needs to be a stock sportbike, then you need to compare the stock sportbike to a stock SRT10 Viper and not the ACR, which is basically a factory race car. I don't know much about the car, but I do know it's lighter, has better brakes, and is more aerodymanic. I'm sure it probably makes a little more power too. Rich (DoingOK) bought one recently and I remember reading a little about it.

Originally Posted by VanillaThrilla

I'm not sure if I'm the one that started the track discussion or not but IIRC this all started out with a discussion about running on a mountain in a car putting it up against sportbikes. I've gotten plenty off course with the debate myself, but now we're comparing AMA to F1? I can understand the comparison between AMA to GT1/GT2, but F1?

Originally Posted by VanillaThrilla

Fuck. I just had a ridiculously long reply to that, but my little home electronic monitoring thing seems to keep interfering with my wireless router causing me to lose my connection randomly. I tried to resubmit my post and it was gone

I'll try to post my thoughts on that shortly.

Originally Posted by 97svt/01saleen

A modern day F1 car is surpassed by none. Hands down. I guess I was talking more in general terms. I think I remeber R&T or Car&Driver did a test a long time ago with a Ninja ZX 11 (drool) and a ZR1 Corvette at Laguna Seca. Both in stock trim with professional drivers. I believe the ZX11 lapped the corvette. So my theroey is based on a vague recolection.
Also, I think in one of the supercar shootouts, they threw a Ninja in for a comparison and the braking from 100-0 was rediculous. I think only the Enzo was close to it.
Either way, it is apples and oranges and I love both the same.

Originally Posted by TNGChris

That may very well be the case.I didn't notice before that we were talking about an ACR model.....You could also argue the other way too-today's 1000cc sportbikes are very close to a full blown race bike right off the showroom floor.With the exception of tires and brake pads,you've basically got something that could compete in an AMA Pro class.It's unreal the performance they offer.I'd venture to say that any of the Jap/Italian 1000s are as close to a racebike as an ACR Viper is.





I was in no way comparing F1 and AMA....I was just amazed when I was saw those times while i was searching.A quick time for VIR Full for a car is around the 2 minute mark.It's just amazing to me that the F1 car was almost 30 seconds faster than even a well prepped race car!

That sucks.Back when this site was taking a shit on a regular basis,I learned to right click/copy my reply before submitting after having several long replies wiped out.




Good info.I'd like to see a modern day equivalent to this test.Any of the new 1000cc sportbikes will hand a ZX11 it's ass,as will a C6 Z06 versus an old C4 ZR1.
As far as the braking,I guess that even though a sportbike's braking limits are determined by it's high Cg,it's much lower weight than a car still makes that limit much higher than most any car.

chris