Why do people dyno their car with higher octane?
12-09-2002, 09:52 AM
#41
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hmm, since he owns an MR2 I'd guess he meant to say he used NOS as an intercooler COOLER, heh heh
And maybe the reason he calls nitrous NOS is because they were the first company to provide nitrous for racing purposes back in 1978, you know, BEFORE you were born?
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...o/History.html
Do you call Kleenex facial tissue? Quit stereotyping people as "ignorant" and do some fucking research yourself.
And maybe the reason he calls nitrous NOS is because they were the first company to provide nitrous for racing purposes back in 1978, you know, BEFORE you were born?
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...o/History.html
Do you call Kleenex facial tissue? Quit stereotyping people as "ignorant" and do some fucking research yourself.
12-09-2002, 01:18 PM
#42
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Originally posted by Twelvz
bullshit
maybe you missed the part where I said...if you use C16: 116 octane leaded
bullshit
maybe you missed the part where I said...if you use C16: 116 octane leaded
Anyway, V8Brick, on your comments about airflow. You are correct about the amount wind at 3 and 4th gear pulls, but they DO have fans as you mentioned, how little those fans put out as opposed to real life figures can't be enough to compensate the difference of 7 full octane points. There is logic to your comments and perhaps you are right as I have no real proof to argue, just going on my assumptions and you know what those do.
If you are worried about IC inefficiencies on the dyno, do this. Go by yourself a can of dust off from the local computer parts store, take it with you, and when the dyno pulls are done spray the can upside down into the IC. The stuff will come out in liquid form (-40*), which combined with the wind from the fan should definately counteract any IC efficiency variations between the dyno and the real world.
12-09-2002, 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by marshall
i think you answered your own question, air to water is expensive. it's also pretty heavy. it's complicated. it takes up a fair amount of room. it loses efficiency as you use it...
Looking at the IC core chart in my turbonetics catalog, my air to air core is 88% efficient at 20mph, pressure drop at 20psi is only 0.6 psi. seems pretty good to me.
marshall
i think you answered your own question, air to water is expensive. it's also pretty heavy. it's complicated. it takes up a fair amount of room. it loses efficiency as you use it...
Looking at the IC core chart in my turbonetics catalog, my air to air core is 88% efficient at 20mph, pressure drop at 20psi is only 0.6 psi. seems pretty good to me.
marshall
12-09-2002, 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by 16g-95gsx
If you are worried about IC inefficiencies on the dyno, do this. Go by yourself a can of dust off from the local computer parts store, take it with you, and when the dyno pulls are done spray the can upside down into the IC. The stuff will come out in liquid form (-40*), which combined with the wind from the fan should definately counteract any IC efficiency variations between the dyno and the real world.
If you are worried about IC inefficiencies on the dyno, do this. Go by yourself a can of dust off from the local computer parts store, take it with you, and when the dyno pulls are done spray the can upside down into the IC. The stuff will come out in liquid form (-40*), which combined with the wind from the fan should definately counteract any IC efficiency variations between the dyno and the real world.
12-09-2002, 02:07 PM
#46
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Originally posted by JS4KIKZ
. Anyone have a good place for T-bolt clamps for my IC?? Thanks
. Anyone have a good place for T-bolt clamps for my IC?? Thanks
Hampton Rubber has them......they're expensive.....but worth it
12-09-2002, 02:10 PM
#47
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Originally posted by 16g-95gsx
Yea it's my understanding that water IC's lose efficiency quickly. Water works awesome as can be in the beginning, but they arent good for a real street application. Anyone else have anything to say on this? .
Yea it's my understanding that water IC's lose efficiency quickly. Water works awesome as can be in the beginning, but they arent good for a real street application. Anyone else have anything to say on this? .
I agree.. If you are running low boost and have a circulatory system,OR don't boost for any duration..it *may* me ok for you. If you run the car hard and long, it's not gonna be as effective as an air-to-air. IMO , an A-W is best left to the drag strip.
12-09-2002, 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by JS4KIKZ
I was wondering about that . I usually spray my IC with water combined with the fans. (Usually use 2 fans) I suppose that the boost problem is with the boost controller itself (HKS EVC EZ) When I first had a MBC, it would jump from 10 to 17psi, then I realized that a hose would pop off. Now, the first few runs are about 18-20psi then the problems start. Im gonna change some of the hoses to SS and re-clamp some other hoses. Anyone have a good place for T-bolt clamps for my IC?? Thanks
I was wondering about that . I usually spray my IC with water combined with the fans. (Usually use 2 fans) I suppose that the boost problem is with the boost controller itself (HKS EVC EZ) When I first had a MBC, it would jump from 10 to 17psi, then I realized that a hose would pop off. Now, the first few runs are about 18-20psi then the problems start. Im gonna change some of the hoses to SS and re-clamp some other hoses. Anyone have a good place for T-bolt clamps for my IC?? Thanks
12-09-2002, 02:41 PM
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I disagree.
why?
Because the intercooler must be in the airflow. Hence it is open up to damage from debris, other cars, rocks, birds, rats and plugging from lots of rubber from the race cars a head of you.
They are more suseptible to damage. You bend a fin or two and you kill flow.
Water to air can fit under the hood, does not require loads of pipe that can increase off throttle responce or lag. It has a higher flow rate than air to air, and can cool better.
Quote from Spearco's web site
Ait to air intercollers will also slow your car as they are not very aerodynamin. They have to be put into the airstreem. Though this looks really cool to all the 16 year old girls, it is not the way to make your car fast. But since the market wants these parts, and they are a lot cheaper, and on the street work just fine since most people only spend less than 2% of the time at WOT, air to air is what manufactures put in their cars.
But for true top speed and racing the big boyz use water to air...
http://www.bankspower.com/Banks_Side...tercooling.cfm
There is a misconception that air to air is good for the roadies... well how can you finish a race if you have a big ass hole in you intercooler, plus it can effect your straight line speed due toi drag.
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0084/page1.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0090/P_1/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0436/page1.html
why?
Because the intercooler must be in the airflow. Hence it is open up to damage from debris, other cars, rocks, birds, rats and plugging from lots of rubber from the race cars a head of you.
They are more suseptible to damage. You bend a fin or two and you kill flow.
Water to air can fit under the hood, does not require loads of pipe that can increase off throttle responce or lag. It has a higher flow rate than air to air, and can cool better.
Quote from Spearco's web site
There are diverse opinions about the advantage of air/liquid intercoolers versus air/air intercoolers in drag racing applications. Some say there is no advantage over air/air and they also say if there is an advantage it is offset by the added weight.
The real facts are that other than a small additional weight factor, a proper application of an air/liquid intercooler will increase power much more than enough to offset any additional weight and will always yield superior performance over an air/air unit. And, sometimes the additional weight is needed for ballast and this disadvantage is erased.
To understand why air/liquid intercoolers are superior for drag racing, consider that the cooling medium in an air/air intercooler is the ambient temperature of the outside air at any given time. If we have an engine running 30PSI boost pressure, depending on compressor efficiency, the discharge temperature will be approximately 400° , with an ambient temperature of 90° F.
Assume that you have an air/air intercooler that can give 90% effectiveness at over 100mph and less at lower vehicle speeds. 90% at the above condition will give a temperature out of the intercooler of approximately 120° F., and higher temperature out at lower speeds due to lower cooling and velocity across the surface of the core. Additionally, you are leaving the line with a hot intercooler caused by heating during burn out.
Now, consider a drag car using an air/liquid intercooler circulating ice water. The pump is turned on before the burn out and when you leave the line the charge temperature will remain more stable throughout the run and charge temperature can actually be much lower than ambient temperature, depending on the size of the intercooler. A properly sized air/liquid intercooler could easily give a charge temperature of 60° (on a 90° day!), which would be 60° lower than the air/air unit. This reduction in charge temperature not only gives a significant increase in power and torque, but also allows the use of more aggressive ignition timing for even greater increases in power.
The real facts are that other than a small additional weight factor, a proper application of an air/liquid intercooler will increase power much more than enough to offset any additional weight and will always yield superior performance over an air/air unit. And, sometimes the additional weight is needed for ballast and this disadvantage is erased.
To understand why air/liquid intercoolers are superior for drag racing, consider that the cooling medium in an air/air intercooler is the ambient temperature of the outside air at any given time. If we have an engine running 30PSI boost pressure, depending on compressor efficiency, the discharge temperature will be approximately 400° , with an ambient temperature of 90° F.
Assume that you have an air/air intercooler that can give 90% effectiveness at over 100mph and less at lower vehicle speeds. 90% at the above condition will give a temperature out of the intercooler of approximately 120° F., and higher temperature out at lower speeds due to lower cooling and velocity across the surface of the core. Additionally, you are leaving the line with a hot intercooler caused by heating during burn out.
Now, consider a drag car using an air/liquid intercooler circulating ice water. The pump is turned on before the burn out and when you leave the line the charge temperature will remain more stable throughout the run and charge temperature can actually be much lower than ambient temperature, depending on the size of the intercooler. A properly sized air/liquid intercooler could easily give a charge temperature of 60° (on a 90° day!), which would be 60° lower than the air/air unit. This reduction in charge temperature not only gives a significant increase in power and torque, but also allows the use of more aggressive ignition timing for even greater increases in power.
But for true top speed and racing the big boyz use water to air...
http://www.bankspower.com/Banks_Side...tercooling.cfm
There is a misconception that air to air is good for the roadies... well how can you finish a race if you have a big ass hole in you intercooler, plus it can effect your straight line speed due toi drag.
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0084/page1.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0090/P_1/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0436/page1.html